Foreword by Matt Diggity:
Very shortly, I’m going to be turning things over to Rick Lomas.
Rick is an expert in manual penalty removal.
I’ve been working with him for quite some time, helping folks recover from manual actions, whether they be “unnatural links”, “thin content”, etc.
Starting last year with a Christmas Day spree of manual actions going after scholarship link building, we’ve seen an uncanny amount of manual penalties being triggered by supposedly whitehat seo techniques.
This is kicked up significantly in 2018 as we’ve had 3 waves of manual penalty sprees already, compared to typically one-per-year.
Rick has kept track of all the “white hat” link types that Google themselves has pointed out problems with.
You’re about to learn all of them.
Table Of Contents
What do I know about links?
I confess that before 2012 I was a black hat spammer and link builder.
In those days I did not care where a link came from, as long as I had more than everybody else.
I was in the motorhome/RV rental niche generating leads for a UK based company. The money was amazing, my client was happy and all was well.
I had VAs in India building web 2.0s and I had three PCs running SENukeXcr 24/7 using spun content.
What could possibly go wrong?
On my birthday, April 7, 2012, I received a message in Google Search Console (or rather Google Webmaster Tools as it was called then). It was the dreaded message that all SEOs never want to see:
Unnatural inbound links to http://domain.com violate Google Webmaster Guidelines
I swear my heart stopped for a few seconds.
I checked my traffic and it was still OK, should I be worried? I carried on as if nothing had happened.
In the back of my mind, I knew there was a ticking bomb about to explode.
On April 23, 2012, the ticking bomb finally exploded and caused mass devastation.
I was left with my main money site limping along on Bing and Yahoo traffic. My income had been decimated overnight.
The reality struck completely when the boss of the motorhome company called and said, “What’s happened? You’ve been wiped off the face of Google. I’ve got three staff here staring at empty screens, shall I fire them?”.
The aim of this post is to educate you to avoid the mistakes that I made.
I’m not doing this by spouting some random ideas, but showing you some sample problematic links that have been provided by Google reviewers.
I only have this evidence because I have worked on hundreds of Manual Actions since 2013.
When does Google provide examples of problematic links?
Sadly, not as often as we would like and certainly not when you ask them!
At the time of writing the most common time to see them is when you have been through this process:
- You have received a Partial Match Manual Action for Unnatural Inbound links
- You have submitted a Reconsideration Request
- Google has replied saying that your Reconsideration Request has been rejected
At this point, more often than not, Google will supply 1, 2 or sometimes even 3 sample links that they do not like.
Here are some examples that may surprise you…
7 “White Hat” Link Types that Will Nail You
1) Non-relevant Niche Edits
The idea of putting a link into an article that is already established in Google is very sound.
But in this case, it seriously backfired.
Here the link was on worldofwonder.net which has rather good metrics and good traffic.
The link was in a sentence talking about a ‘walker’ as an aid to help people walk. The article was about Alice Walker, an American writer, and activist.
Clearly, the link was completely irrelevant. So it seems that Google doesn’t like irrelevant links.
Most niche edits I see are pretty tenuous links, so be careful and definitely keep them on topic.
2) Sponsored Posts
This one comes as no surprise.
Google does not want you to guest post, pay for posts, pay for links, do link exchanges or anything that violates their Google Webmaster Guidelines.
That said, this message was meaningless as this site did not have any live links that even vaguely resembled these samples.
It’s a fail for Google, but at the same time, we get the message that sponsored posts are bad.
3) Zero Traffic Sites – Site Rebuilds?
I don’t always agree that a site with no traffic doesn’t pass link juice.
If this was true 99% of PBNs would not work. But we know that they do work.
However, in this case, the Google reviewer did not like this link at all. Looking at the site itself http://teampr.info/ it seems to be a site rebuild using content probably from Archive.org. The content is now junk and irrelevant with tons of broken images.
Google has the final word, “Your site still violates Google Webmaster Guidelines”.
4) Obvious Guest Posts
At first glance, KevinMD.com looks like an authority site similar to WebMD.com.
The ‘Contribute’ page says:
KevinMD.com is the web’s leading social media health platform, with 3 million monthly page views, and over 250,000 subscribers on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and RSS.
Could this be true? It’s probably somewhat exaggerated, but SEMRush does show some reasonable traffic:
The link in question was not even a money keyword anchor text link.
It simply stated something like, “A. Doctor is an anesthesiologist who blogs at AFitnessBlog.org.” at the end of the article. The article itself was well written and informative.
The site states that it was founded in 2004 by Kevin Pho. Kevin Pho appears to be a real physician and even has his own Wikipedia page.
So how could this be problematic? I think the answer can be found if we go back in time with Archive.org and see how the site looked in 2011:
It seems like Kevin has been selling guest posts for many years and Google does not like it.
Avoid reaching out to sites that clearly state that they’re selling links in their posts, avoid guest post author box links, etc.
Or go with a vendor like Authority Builders that has already done this vetting for you.
5) Best Top Rated Links
The one thing that stands out more than anything else in Google’s Manual Actions of 2018 is keywords like: best, top rated, top 10, review of the best etc.
The link here is on http://uscombatsports.com and has the word ‘best’ 21 times on this particular page.
Throughout this site, the word ‘best’ is completely overused. Take a look at the homepage:
Although this site has some reasonable traffic, I get the impression that Google doesn’t like being told what is best!
6) Fake Social Profile Links
There are two links given here. The first one Sociable.co might appear to be some sort of social network, but in fact, it is just another blog selling guest posts:
The traffic on sociable.co is reasonable, but the fact that they openly advertise the sale of sponsored posts seems to be a definite No-No in Google’s eyes.
The second example is on bizcommunity.co.ke. Although this Kenya-based website openly states ‘Advertise with us’ on its menu, the problem link is much more subtle than a blatant ad or guest post link:
At first, it appears to be a perfectly innocent profile page with a NoFollow link to the members’ website.
On closer inspection, it is evident that there is a second DoFollow link with an obvious money keyword in the anchor text.
Google didn’t like them being greedy. It’s also odd how the profile name is Cathy, but then in the description, she appears to be called Rosie. I suspect this may be some software script that set up hundreds of profiles automatically, spinning the text each time.
7) Irrelevant Redirects
This was the first time in five years of fixing penalties that I saw a redirect given as an example problematic link.
The really worrying thing here is that there didn’t appear to be anything wrong with the domain other than it was slightly off topic.
The original domain was about a specific food festival at a town in The Republic of Ireland. This domain was redirecting to a domain about kitchenware which is aimed at a US audience.
There is a second link mentioned which Google refer to as a ‘spam link’. The site is now dead, but looking back to January 2018 on archive.org you can see that it was complete rubbish.
The opening sentence of this post says it all:
Microwave are now very popular among residence manufacturers, when time conserving tools have actually come to be necessary in the transformed lifestyles of the people.
This could not have been written by a human and no human ever needs to read this sort of nonsense.
So how do you avoid getting manual actions?
The examples that I have mentioned above may have shattered all your illusions about link building.
Links that you may have thought were white hat are being given as examples of problematic links. Even redirects and NoFollow links may not be as safe as you once thought.
So what does all this mean, are any links safe?
I think the answer is that some of the links above may be beneficial as long as they are not overdone.
As soon as you start trying to manipulate the SERPs by building links you are violating Google’s Webmaster Guidelines. If you are building links you need to make your links look natural even if they are not.
To avoid getting a Manual Action you need to analyze your competitors who are ranking on page one of Google and see what they are getting away with.
If you are ‘sticking out’ in some way you could raise a red flag and trigger a manual review or an algorithmic penalty. This might be something like having too many PBN links, not enough NoFollow links, too many links to inner pages, not enough image links etc.
You need to balance your anchors based on your niche.
Google does, of course, know what all the money keywords are.
Google built Adwords which in turn has created the World’s largest database of keywords, complete with the price that webmasters are prepared to pay for a click.
If you do indeed run into a manual penalty, contact Matt and I and we’ll be happy to get rid of it (100% success rate).
Conclusion
SEO is getting harder, link building is getting harder and penalties are getting more frequent and harsher.
This is great news for the more savvy SEOs.
As the amateur and untrained SEOs give up, the ninja SEOs can move in and dominate lucrative niches and charge more for their services.
Which one are you?
Awesome stuff Rick as always. It’s good to have a nice please process which is going to only get harder over time. Thanks for putting this together.
Thanks Kurt. As we know, things that get harder, work out better for those who understand what the deal is. We can profit while others give up 🙂
Thanks for the great post and knowledge.
I want to ask. If we create accounts on many social media, does it help for our domain or does it become spam in search engines?
Nice Article. I would like to hear how you convince Google to lift a penalty if you have no way to remove the links
The ol’ disavow tool.
Cheers for the info, Rick. Balance and diversification has and most likely will always be key. Reduce your risk and improve your long-term reward by building/earning as many links from various different legitimate sources. That’s what’s always worked for us.
Great post Rick,
I have no questions really except the call out for anyone that got hit (a notice) exactly on their birthday. I got mine (which wiped out 90% of my income) on 21.11.2011…exactly on my bday.
Google is a sick sick “individual” it seems…
That’s not cool, man.
I always thought that was a coincidence and I probably still do, but still spooky to hear somebody else say that.
Great read Rick, thanks for the time and effort to help the SEO community out.
Regards
Chris
Great article.
Vouch for Rick, removed penalty from both of my sites.
Awesome article Rick!.
This article is an eye opener for people who think by going white hat , they’re 100% safe.
Truth is these days it doesn’t matter much if you’re white hat or use PBNs. As long as you intentionally build links , you’re at risk of getting a penalty. Simple.
The good thing here is that you can avoid getting penalized if you pay attention ; down to the simplest thing.
Now back to the article , there are some statements i don’t fully agree with.
1) “To avoid getting a Manual Action you need to analyze your competitors who are ranking on page one of Google and see what they are getting away with.”
I’ve heard this statement several times and i think it is flawed because there are so many factors that determines which site ranks #1.
Sites might be ranking in the top 5 but it doesn’t mean their tactics is the acceptable norm for the niche and you should follow them blindly. They’re getting away with it today doesn’t mean they wouldn’t get caught tomorrow.
I saw this happen in one of my niches 2months ago. The top site was ranking #1 for every keyword……for 2 solid years….Only to get a manual penalty in June 2018.
The site is heavy on PBNs with < 5 guest post links , yet ranked for 2 solid years without algorithmic or manual penalty.
Now imagine i followed his tactics based on the fact that he's been ranking for 2 years with 90% PBNs. I'll probably be penalized by now.
2) "Patterns have shown that links placed on pages that also have words like “advertise”, “sponsored”, “guest post” somewhere on the page are extremely dangerous. Even if these words show up in the nav bar, sidebar, or footer, the bot doesn’t care. Avoid them at all costs.”
This is an eye opener , Matt.
But because we have no control of the site , the variables can change real quick.
A page might not have all that at the time you’re placing links but what if things change and the webmaster decides to add an “advertise with us” page at the footer , to get more $$.
How do we handle that?
Great points, I’d love to hear Matt’s response to this.
Awesome stuff, and would help future link building efforts. What’s your take on using auction domains to build sites? From the looks of it, big G may see the pre-existing links as irrelevant and may trigger a penalty…
Thanks for great info. Weird situation in “Advertise with us” case. Many top news websites and magazines have this type of wording in their navigation. I didn’t think it’s a bad idea to avoid that authority websites just because of Advertise page. Now I’m confused.
I think the problem is not so much advertise with us, but what is being said on the particular advertise page itself, eg that they openly sell sponsored posts. This doesn’t leave a sitewide footprint though so you need to have a pretty grumpy manual reviewer for this to happen I think. I’m not really sure if those manual reviewers just pick links themselves manually or that their system provides them with the links. Tricky one.
I have some unnatural link placements pointing at my money sites.
Should I work towards having these links delete before they land me in trouble?
Great insights Rick and like the way you went through individual cases.
Google wants to make SEO irrelevant and drive everyone towards adwords.
Again, thanks for putting all these things together
Thoroughly enjoyed the post Matt, especially the manual action notices – you never get to see those in articles so it was refreshing.
I have many non-relevant niche edits pointing at my money sites.
Should i start working towards having these deleted before they create problems for my money sites?
Wow! Thanks for this piece of information, because I still find myself making some of these link building mistakes I will make amendments henceforth
Great insights Rick.
@Matt: Question about ‘Patterns have shown that links placed on pages that also have words like “advertise”, “sponsored”, “guest post” somewhere on the page are extremely dangerous. Even if these words show up in the nav bar, sidebar, or footer, the bot doesn’t care. ‘
Are you sure the word ‘advertise’ isn’t ok? Many sites have a way to advertise and a lot of good sites would not qualify if you exclude based on the word advertise being used in the navigation.
Edited the post to include “etc.”
Hi,
Thanks for this summary, very good job.
Regarding the best top rated links I found very “funny” that Google doesn’t like being told what is best seeing the search results!
example: Screenshot of the first page “waterproof selfie stick”
https://ufile.io/5xinw
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks
Hey Rick, great article but number 3. does not seem to make sense.
I don’t think it is to do with the linking site being an old HTML site that has been rebuilt badly (broken links, missing images). Instead if you look at the text in the reconsideration request, it looks like the issue is clearly with the use of a “best rated” anchor again.
Yeah you are probably right Chloe. Maybe it’s just a mixture of both.
Is it possible to have partial manual penalty without a notice in Search console? Some of my posts completely disappeard from the Top100 for the main keywords, while before they were ranking in the top10 to top20. They are all posts with “best xxx” kind of main keywords. Or might it just be overoptimization?
Highly doubt it. You probably have an algorithmic penalty.
Cheers for the info, Rick. Balance and diversification has and most likely will always be key. Reduce your risk and improve your long-term reward by building/earning as many links from various different legitimate sources. That’s what’s always worked for us.
An important piece of missing info, is how many of these link types on average did it take to trigger a penalty?
Surely it was dozens and not just a couple. Not implying these are good links to ever have though.
We’ll never know.
Great content and one of the best content of this year when Google declared their updates one by one. One questions to you Matt, let me know which ratio you suggest for the homepage and inner page link building?
40-60%, or 60-40%.
Awesome Post. Really informative. Thanks!
Hi Matt,
Excellent post, and thank you!
I get it. Now I know to stay away from sites that openly have in their navigation bars “guest post” or “advertise with us” and etc… But what about write for us?
Could “Write For Us” be implied guest posting or a paid link? Many “write for us” links on site don’t cost money, but it’s clearly looking for Guest Post I think? Would you stay away from “write for us” sites as well?
Haven’t seen it come up, but its possible.
Very helpful, remind me to be careful even when doing ‘whitehat’ Seo. Thank you
Matt, have you ever saw a penalty regarding tier 1 backlink’s link profile? im not talking about GSA/spam links to tier 1, but lots of medium quality guest posts/niche edit links?
EG: creating a network of ‘branded’ web2.0s then sending 10-20 guest posts to each web 2.0 which boosts the value of each of those tier 1 branded web2.0s. now this would be extremely expensive but may be wiser to do that than sending 50 guest posts to money site over a multiple year campaign.
Right now im ranking roofing companies and when i create separate service pages (roof repair + city) i sit here trying to decide how many guest posts links i should send to each page. It wouldnt be a problem if there were few but there are 20 different cities to target. By sending a guest post to each service page it sounds risky. but what else can i do. i need to rank the service page
I definitely wouldn’t take it as far as putting guest posts on tier 2. Just use the right types of guest posts on tier 1. There’s certain signals that Google doesn’t link on their links. Avoid them (by following this article) or you can work with us at Authority Builders, where we’re constantly on top of the whole situation and doing the vetting for you.
What do you think causes manual penalties? Since the algo isn’t smart enough yet to catch all of these things, I think it has to be other webmasters telling on each other…
My hypothesis: the algorithm runs its filters and determines some kind of “anti-quality” or “risk” score. Once it hits a certain threshold, that site might end up on the desk of a manual reviewer.
Fantastic post Rick! Yes, link building is certainly getting harder but for those of us in the know this can only be a good thing.
Is the same true for the sites that only have “Write for us” in the menu without that guest post keyword mentioned?
Possibly yes, but the point is that these kind of links may not be a problem unless you are trying to get out of manual action. At this point a reviewer would look at anything that looks like a paid placement and reject a reconsideration request.
Rick, would you advise against a site publicly listing a “write for us” page? Or would a potential penalty only be applied to the recipient site?
My guess is that it would not hurt the ‘linker’ but could hurt the ‘linkee’. However, see my comment above.
I run my own blog and was looking to add the “Write for us” option to it ( no plans for making money through it).
But after reading this post, I’m not sure whether to go ahead with it or not.
What do you suggest Matt?
I don’t know what your purpose would be in adding it. Free content? Is it worth it?
Great post Rick. Got me thinking about the kind of links I secure. Will be more attentive now.
Thanks.
1. Why would links from author boxes be dangerous? Big name blogs have links from the author box.
2. Why would a link be dangerous from a site that just has a page saying they accept articles from external writers? (guest post, write for us etc) (Many big sites have guest posters)
Google doesn’t want you to create your own links. A link in an author box shows exactly that.
Awesome post Rick and Matt. Thanks for the insights!
i already have write for us page since 2 years shall i remove it?
Your decision. I’d suggest not making it look too easy to get a link on your site though.
Matt/Rick, this is really an eye opening. Well I really appreciate it!
I mean I went through the entire list and wanted to participate my thoughts hopefully you will publish my comment. Well bit background about me, it took me 4 years to figure out SEO (at least the link building part of it not from outreach and getting content up but from which link actually works, I am sure you guys know what I am talking about). So without further ado, lets dive in.
#1: Non-relevant Niche Edits – Absolutely, first algos can determine that page was about a person and unfortunately the last name of the person was what probably made it question mark for the algo even when that was not the case plus this was a link insertion… I can clearly see from the pattern that Google isn’t liking link insertion anymore.
Now, question for you Matt or Rick,
1) Did you guys disavowed all the required websites (i won’t ask the obvious here) that were linking back to the website? I noticed the traffic of the website went from about 50k to 12k.
2) From your experience, after disavowing the required websites, did that have a negative effect on other websites that were linked by the “required websites”.
#2: Sponsored Posts – Now this one is scary. Be creative moving forward.
#3: Zero Traffic Sites – Site Rebuilds? – Well I think its how those sites are built, if you use the obvious techniques then yes Google can catch up to you, but there are better ways. And yes PBN do work, so I do agree but there are some requirements that make it maybe legitimate, but I think it is varying in different niches.
#4: Obvious Guest Posts – This was a eye opener for me! Thanks for letting everyone know.
#5: Best Top Rated Links – I did my analysis, and I think it was more to do with link insertion and network catch (that’s my opinion). But, you guys are the champs!
#6: Fake Social Profile Links – This is also a good one. Really a eye opener.
#7: Irrelevant Redirects – Another great one. But I shall ask Google how can anyone control this? this can be beyond the website owner since how it works.
Guys, I want to thank you again for putting it together, I have been learning for 4 years but I am newbie since I am just getting started after losing a lot of money. so really really appreciate the information.
#6
Well my further review of #6 Obvious Guest Posts appears that the site was a dropped domain and therefore it was no longer owned by the same owner therefore Google did not like the fact that there was a authority link point at it which was built by previous owner.
Hi Rick & Matt!
Thank you very much for this article. I find the examples very useful. Especially the one with the redirect penalty. I have never seen one of those before. All the best and keep up the good work!
Great article! Loved the examples. We hear so much about niche edits and people selling them nowadays but it is scary not having control over how they are done or where exactly they are placed. I have seen a niche edit seller delivering a package of niche edits, then going and deleting them after a week and replacing them with niche edits for someone else. Obviously making money but a big red flag for Google.
Hey Matt,
Thank you for the useful cases.
Could you recommend who can be strong in content penalties?
Had a huge drop down without manual action in GSC.
Thank you
The Search Initiative
Great article man this information very informative
Matt & Rick would agree that in 2016-2017 the keyword “Best” is used very frequently & search results were changed drastically because of this Particular Keyword.
All affiliate marketers need to use it efficiently.
Or else this could be next penalty criteria.
Great informative article. That will help me to build link building in the right way.
Love your stuff Matt. New subscriber!
I am new to the A.M. world and niche sites …
… would you say 100% that building links with tools like GSA is colmpletely dead?
If I create great content for my Tier 1 + Tier 2 + Tier 3 … links, and I don’t abuse the anchor text, don’t abuse the amount of links created per day (1-3 for tier 1 p/d) … and so on …
Mixing as well the above with PBN links, Web 2.0, Guest posts …
Doing everything by the book as they say (I’m following Matt Woodward to do this stuff) …
…would you say it’s completely dead even if done like I mentioned above?
Thanks Matt.
Can’t wait for the next email from you!
Thanks Rick for the awesome post!?
Adrian
Hi Adrian, GSA might still work at lower tiers. I just don’t do it anymore. I find better ROI focusing on PBN and Guest Posts and just staying concentrated on Tier 1.
Thanks very much, Rick and Matt. Excellent article. I’m grateful to you for sharing your knowledge.
1) The “best” thing: on my site pretty much all my money pages have title and h1 tags that start with “best … “. The SERP seems to be dominated by sites putting “best” in the title, h1, and URL. It feels a bit old hat and spammy, but would you recommend removing the “best” from these onsite elements?
2) If any of my links fall foul of the ‘bad link’ types you’ve noted, might this be causing an algorithmic drop but not a manual penalty, ie, my site losing rankings but no manual penalty notice?
Many thanks in advance! 🙂
Kumar
1) Rick is just talking about a pattern he noticed on the links, not your own onsite SEO.
2) Definitely possible.
Link building has become so fu**ing hard these days. You have bloggers who will charge you a bomb, Google that will penalize you and great content is a myth. Producing great content time and again is a real task for which few companies are not even ready to invest in the money because they it is not easy to measure the ROI of these efforts.
Thanks Rick for putting this across. Really helpful.
Awesome article guys. This info will be valuable info for newer SEO’s. After having to clean up dozens of old link profiles a few years ago because of garbage links and spammy anchor text that caused a few manual actions, it pays to stay on top of things and make sure you’re doing things as clean as possible for your long term projects and clients.
Great article. I’m grateful to you for sharing your knowledge about SEO. I’m new to the SEO world and niche sites. Here in Brazil i don’t have much information about how to do SEO properly. This article will help me to build link building in the right way.
Really helpful.
Hey Rick,
You are right. This White Hat thing is really exaggerated by the internet marketers. Imo if Google can catch your shady link building technique, you are doomed.
I do believe, that this is just another “hoax”, how to spread the word to paralyze webmasters from links creation.
I would like to point out just one topic here: “links from zero traffic websites”, a.k.a. directories.
If you write unique title, description of your presentation at directory that subpage of the catalogue will get indexed /unique content/ and so there is no way that this link can hurt you.
My words are coming from the fact, that penguin and other google updates helped to kill directory business in general, yet if you open your business licence google directory /google/business/ will be the very first instance to add your details into their portfolio /”directory”/ without asking…/for free for now/…
…so please…Problem is not link creation. It is level of laziness of the webmasters.
Hello Rick Lomas’
I Always Do unique work, But By mistake i made Lot’s of Comment Back links from blogspot, After 2 Month Google still Penalize my website. Right now i Lost my 90% Traffic. After That i submit 900 Domain in Disavow its been a long time, my website has no recover. Kindly Give me a suggestion What can i do for recover my web.
Great intro! Kept me hooked and wanting to read more. I’m happy I did. Some fantastic examples.
Cheers
Thanks for elaborate discussing the Manual action of Google for link building. I am going to say a few words about your article.
1) green links are eye hurting, I don’t know why to use that color.
2) you have mentioned that sponsor for a guest post, can give you manual ban from Google, I have seen many websites with a guest post for sponsored post title with link. But they are ranked high in the search engine, why not Google take action against that authority site?
3) if nonrelative niche can hurt the ranking of the actual website, can my computer use that technique against me?
On point as always Rick!
does it affect the SEO in a negative sense if we post the same blogs on different platforms?
I don’t recommend posting the same exact blog posts on different platforms. The Panda update put an end to that strategy years ago.
love this site
Nice case studies, but from experience i doubt some of the statements made here.
“Best of” and “write for us” are still working very well for established Aged sites.
IMHO, Google algorithms have never been fair to the small website owners, who no matter how much quality they put, they will always be outranked by huge and often not-so-relevant sites. This is exactly why monsters like business insider and others are nowadays relying heavily on affiliate income. It is just too easy for them. Look at theit Beat Of articles ranking 1-5 and tell me they all make sense…
Moreover, if the Write For Us was always a no-no, then all UGC-based sites wouldn’t be even indexed, but they’re there and they rank sometimes pretty well.
Again, i loved this article, but i think we are just scratching the surface here.
Great informative article. That will help me to build link building in the right way.
It’s always a pleasure to find people like you! Learning a lot from you!
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